Date: Thu Nov 16, 2000 3:31pm

Greetings Charles,    
 
I am Joey, Bob is my husband. He is a 53 year old computer artist who has 
always been a laid back, easy going guy, at times I have even felt his lack of 
concern for the world around him was total apathy. He has never been an 
excitable, crazy-type individual, he does not party, drink, use profanity, or 
even enjoy a good heated argument. All changed starting in June.
 
A brief history: Being self employed, our independent health insurance had gone
up to $1476.75 per month for the last year, we were in the process of changing
companies. A physical was ordered for the new company. Considering the fact we
had never taken advantage of our old company's free yearly physical, we 
decided to use them.

Our then German Exchange student brought home a bad cold and Bob was coming 
down with it at the time of the check up. The doctor told  him it was 
bronchitis and he started puffers, antibiotics, decongestants, and 
antihistamines. He got worse (my feeling is that he was now in the throws of 
his illness, it had run its normal course) Bob, a smoker, was now told it was 
possibly lung cancer. Panic hit and Paxil was prescribed. A free sample for the 
Doctor. (two dosage amounts to take, first the lower 10, and later the 20mg),
After a chest x-ray, hyperventilation and a trip to the hospital in an 
ambulance, the emt fellas said it was a heart attack, at the hospital, the ER 
doctor diagnosed a panic attack, gave a shot of valium, and in 10 minutes and 
$4,000 later he felt great. (we found out later the dates of the new insurance 
coverage were after the supposed start date and the old had already cancelled 
us, ironic isn't it!). 

Only after 6 days on paxil, Bob felt terrible, anxiety, sweating, could not
sleep (up for 3 days), irritability, pacing, crying, shacking, I was afraid. 
That afternoon, saw the doctor and I told him, the toilet was to get the 
medication Bob was on if he did not tell us how to get him off al of it. 
By this time, 6 weeks had gone by and only 6 days of this time were on Paxil. 
The doctor said to stop all but the asthma puffer, cold turkey.
Now a scare came back of prostate test elevated to suggest prostate cancer, 
grief, what next, more anxiety, crying, talking about his past, remorse of 
things long past, total grief, unable to work, more tears, fears, agitation, at
this time he shoved me and started to become more aggressive. I had been able 
to cuddle and hold him to sooth him, but this became harder.

No prostate cancer found, too many art jobs came in and Bob was so involved 
with trying to get all this work done that he actually had a pretty good month 
last month. Occupying his mind with his art work did wonders for him, now he is
slow again and the panic is coming back. He talks of not being able to live 
like this anymore, I think he  means to kill himself. I am afraid, he needs 
support.
 
I am a doctors daughter and have always been very afraid of hospitals, my best 
died of pancreatic cancer three years ago and left a 3 year old, I grew up with 
nothing but horror stories. I had not seen a doctor since my daughter's birth 
24 years ago when I too had a physical this summer. I do not want Bob on 
medications, up until now I have been strong enough to hold his hand, he seems 
to think the Paxil damaged his mind, the claw like grip in the top-back of his 
brain is too much for him to live with. i believe the drugs he was on have hurt
him and I will now stand up to these learned men when it comes to drugging 
Bob. The latest is a prescription for Prozac from his urologist. Will it never 
end.

Thank you for listening,

Joey 

Date: Sat Nov 18, 2000 6:41pm

I think I have found a doctor who is a potential help, if you can 
call it that. he is into talk as well as drug therapy. We realize now 
with the help of this group, that there are many ways deal with his 
problems, not just being druged up. he will be helped and I will hold 
his hand when he wants it. My deepest appreciation to you all for the 
good work you are trying to do. Too bad so many folks think doctors 
and pills are the only way out of their problems.

Joey 

Date: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:09pm
Subject: Bob is in the psychatric ward

Good morning all, I sure it will be a good morning. You all are the 
survivors, but your families are too. I cannot understand all the 
hell you are going through. I have not been there, although I 
strongly now realize these drugs hurt whole families to the point of 
no return. Bob did listen to his big brothers. He kept dropping 
further and further away from me until I could take it no longer. I 
talked him through Saturday by messing around on the computer trying 
to find a place. His friend Mike talked him through Sunday, Monday he 
was OK since he was assured of a Tuesday appointment, Tuesday he woke 
up acting like a zombie. stumbled around here, could not concentrate, 
headache, nausia, drank tons of water, coke, coolaid, anything he 
could get his hands on. As the time became eminant, he just sat and 
nodded his head and made whimpering noises. His niece and hubby 
arrived and he snapped out of it for a while. He hugged her and cried 
out loud, poor Pati, she was dumbfounded and did not know what to do.

I thought he would be coming home as he did not want to pact 
anything. 17 years ago Bob too was in an accident and had a broken 
back - no pain or anything, broken means split nerve cells, so he did 
not even have surgery for 6 months. The worst thing was that he lost 
control of his bladder and could not totally empty it and had to 
startusing catheters 4 times aday to completely empty himself. This 
has nothing to do with last night other than the fact that he always 
carries his catheter stuff if he is going to be out for any length of 
time. He did not do this.

I had to fill out the paperwork as the light hurt his eyes so badly. 
Lots of black or white type questions, do you dream, have you ever 
thought about suicide, are you in pain, how stupid, I could have 
written a better list. A resident,a nice young guy did the initial 
work up and the head honcho did the evaluation. They left me in the 
waiting room for an hour and a half. Bob shuffeled out with the gonna 
be doctor and I followed them into a cubical sized room. It was 
recommended that Bob be admitted. I asked if I had any say in the 
matter and was told no, Bob had already decided. I asked if I could 
get it into the reccord as to how I felt. I informed the resident 
that I detested doctors, drugs, hospitals and the whole medical 
profession. Rather on the blunt side I told him I would never allow 
Bob to take another ssri, but since I am no longer in the loop, so be 
it.

Bob sat and cried, quietly this time, and the little guy just sat 
there. I spoke of my research, asked about his knowledge of these 
reactions and he did say he had read something about it.

On the way over to the intake hospital I asked Dr Carlson what he 
wanted to be when he grew up, he told me "a psychiatrist", I said I 
realized that, duh, but what area of the the field. He  replied, 
"research". wow, I told him to keep in close proximity to Bob and he 
could learn what ssri drugs can to do someone and it would be an 
excellent case study for him to research. He just smiled at me.

I went up to the 5th floor and would not go in with them, I just 
could not, my knees were shacking so bad i nearly sat down in the 
elevator on my way back down.

three hours later, Bob called, crying, like a child,he was on the 
speaker phone, I had lost the carry around one. His niece and our 
German exchange student heard him whimpering. He said "I don't like 
it here and want to come home. He was afraid, he did not take the 
pill they gave him." (he had it in his hand - traazapan or whatever 
it was) I told him he did not have to eat, drink, or swallow anything 
he did not want to. In the patients rights he had to sign, I told him 
one of the things was that he had the right to refuse any treatment 
including drugs. I told him to tell the nurse ----NO SSRI'S

He called back an hour later and said the nurse had gotten a 
different sleeping pill.

This is reality folks    In patient care is a small room with a bed, 
a large room with all sorts of "Crazy" people walking and sitting 
around as Bob described it. he said there was no color (remember, he 
is an artist), he can smoke during a 2 hour break in the afternoon, 
have visitors between 6 and 8, he eats with all (those) people and 
will see the doctors only for short periods. Basiclly, it is prison, 
my poor husband, little did he know what he was getting into when he 
listened to his brothers.

I guess I am at the beginning of the end, all hope is gone and I too 
would just like to drive away. I have no clue as to how to react, 
think, survive, or go on with the rest of this day or the next or the 
next, I too must need a fucking PILL.

Joey

Date:  Wed Feb 7, 2001 9:41pm

How do you survive the suicidal thoughts?
How do you survive the anxiety?
How do you survive the idea that you might not ever get
better?
How do you survive when you don't know who you are anymore?

Is it easier to get of a lower dose of an AD than a higher one?
I'm on 10 mg of Celexa, so in my mind I'm already half way off.

Jerry

Date:  Thu Feb 8, 2001 4:05am

Response from Joey:
YOU ARE NOT CRAZY........are you married? My husband woke me up last 
night and asked me to put him in a hospital beause he was fighting 
the urge to kill our daughter and me. I slowly talked him into 
believing he loved us and you do not distroy the things you love, he 
did get rational, but it is scary. One of these days, you may hear of 
a news story where a guy in Dallas cut his family up, we have no guns.

These drugs are powerful, really powerful, you need to be able to 
vent and get angry, it is the one emotion you still have, so now, I 
am trying to get Bob to name the thing in his head, and get angry at 
it for hurting him, not the people and things that he loves.

These are side effects that come and go, sometimes he just complains 
of a tooth ache, a pressure-type of head pain, he had never had a 
head ache before the drugs so he can't say it is like a "normal" head 
ache. Sometimes he is very red like over heated, sometimes he shakes, 
hands shake, sometimes it is his head just bobbing up and down or 
sideways. He is hot, he is cold, he is thrashing around, he is a 
zombie, he is obsessed with sex, he won't touch even the dogs, he is 
hungry, he gets nauseous at the sight of food, you name it, he is it 
at sometime during each day. BUT, after Bob has his serzone cut, the 
very next two days are all of the above, no peace for him, the next 
two are milder, the next two even better, then we drop his dose 
again   ditto,  ditto......slowly......
Y O U   W I L L   G E T    S T R O N G E R , get po'd at the doctors, 
the drugs, everything except yourself and the ones you love. Sorry to 
tell you hon, you are not crazy or unique, depressed, anxious, none 
of the feelings you have right now are you, it is the drugs doing 
this to you,   It gets better, even Bob has only thought about 
killing himself and us once this week, for three weeks it was 
daily....just watch a clock to survive one more minute, if that is 
all you can do, time will heal you      Hugs   Joey
P.S. Do not trust the medical field, even Bob's two psychologists 
told him he had deep seeded problems and was either very severally 
depresses or insane, one idiot asked if insanity ran in his family,  
Ha  ha   do not go waste your money....

Joey

Date:  Thu Feb 8, 2001 11:30am

Response to Joey's response (above):
Hi Joey, this is Hannah.
My story is posted under the files section. I'm in my
tenth month after discontinuing all SSRI's, and can
relate to the feelings you're describing Bob to be
having.
A few months back,i was so convinced
that i was bad and insane and when i was eventually
hospitalised, i thought i'd never get out and for
the first few weeks, actually decided that i wanted
to remain in hospital for the rest of my life
because i thought that i would always feel the way
that i did. But those thoughts gradually grew less in
intensity and i began to feel my own personality again
and a little more in control of my thoughts. I
constantly needed reassurance that the thoughts and
urges i was experiencing weren't part of my character,
were the result of the medication, and that i wouldn't
act on them. Bob needs to be reassured of this, and to
be told that they will definitaley go but that he
needs to be patient. It also helped me to be
surrounded by positive stimuli,to be constantly
reassured that i wasn't a 'bad'person, that the
thoughts would go and that every moment is a step
closer.
I feel for both of you because i know how painful it
is.....but it does and will get better....I'm
thinking of you both....stay strong, 

Hannah

Date:  Thu Feb 8, 2001 5:23pm

Response to Joey's response2: 
---Huh! Ya' right....Bob has deep seeded problems alright....it's 
called "deep seeded drugs" screwing up his system! That makes me soo 
mad for both of you! How dare they! There was NOTHING wrong with this 
man BEFORE the drugs! I pray for you both daily, my friend. Again, 
with all these people having "DRUG_RELATED" problems.....WHY WON'T 
ANYONE LISTEN???????????It frustrates me to no end that we all have 
VALID medical complaints that are not being addressed. How many 
people does this have to affect before something is done...before we 
can get REAL care? Tomarrow I go to my new shrink...the third one in 
fact in 4 years! I don't even want to go. I've finally weaned myself 
down slowly from 20 mgs to 15...10 was too much. So anyways, I still 
need my "pusher" to supply me with my fixes until I'm weaned off. 
God! I don't even know how to act anymore when I see these PD's. If I 
tell them the truth...that withdrawel feels deadly and all the 
symptoms...they either look at me stangely or wanbt to up the dose.I 
really, really wish there was some type of rehab or detox place where 
one can go and get excpert care without all the dope. A place to feel 
safe and know you're not dying or going crazy. Reassurance. One can 
only dream. Joey, my prayers, love, and thoughts are with you both! Love, 

Sherri